Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

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Réponse de BeGood sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

15000€ !! C'est hallucinant.
Il me semblait que Hunter Valley faisait la promotion de leur volonté de démocratiser l'élevage ... J'ai du mal comprendre !
18 Nov 2021 20:55 #41

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Réponse de moncourt sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Hunter Valley ne fait qu'appliquer à plus grande échelle ce que faisait au début des années 80 Ecurie du Monteil avec Bruno Muel et JL Peupion comme entraineurs....voir mon intervention à ce sujet (elle date)....chaque jour des centaines de pigeons prennent leur envol!!!!!
Merci pour ce message de la part de : UaUka1
19 Nov 2021 08:37 #42

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Réponse de UaUka1 sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Bonjour

I have done some studies on this hot sexy horse Izoard Vedaquais that everyone here is speculating to be a crack

The two matings of Bird Parker ( an outmatch) and Dokha Vedaquaise ( an outmatched mare) - but if we drive deeper into these two pedigrees we can find affinities and same parents etc, this is not subject today

As I like giving numbers to these horses,

Bird Parker is lesser than 3 points to his father Ready Cash

While in mare in this pedigree is less 1 point to Bird Parker

The addition of the pere to mare comes out 1 point plus more than the grandfather Ready Cash
we may notice that Ready Cash is 25% genetics in this pedigree and still holds it better than his grandson Izoard Vedaquais

Going through this pedigree and putting the recherche on this famous mare Nymphe d'Odyssee, I have noticed that her genetic makeup has changed, with her granddaughter Imagine d'Odyssee thanks to Fakir and B:Aunou - the mare became more American, and if I should say looks less problematic 'gait wise' ....... (and since I have been successful with these lines in Vanishing Point and Redemption Song, it was worth studying )
the whole mare's "DV" material comes out or looks like to be an AA in gaits

We know the career of Ready Cash and what they say he's an AA
But looking merely to the mare of Bird Parker,
-Belisha, we can see why this mare had such a bad career and where she made problematic off-springs
And why the trainer of Bird does not want a filly of him and his proper sire

Now looking at the career of IV, one can easily say yes he's an AA
But to me, it's really this aC+aa ( noting how I have expressed myself) ( i wrote what i think and see during my Recherches )

And to me why he's not running the elites, knowing the profile of his trainer, is because, in my head, the picture is IV is running on eggs, he's a total masterpiece of his trainer and his equipe

Since I was interested in this future sire and he matches my top filly Redemption Song, i think i would like to recreate a new subject better than Gainsborough

Here's my story
Redemption Song is minus 2 points to her mother Engane du Perthois , yes I didn't accelerate the pedigree, I knew that all along, but she is higher by 1 point to Bird Parker
That Gainsborough scores higher than both after and mother - say plus 14 points
Yet he is very difficult and way too much AC gens expressed
If I should decode him, he's " aC +AC+ AA" coming out a Ca ( note how I changed it around

So in the test mating, these numbers came out
IV is higher than Redemption Song by 4 points - which is logical there's a 2 generation gap in this marriage
and the total addition comes out even better if it's the generation of the "O" scores higher by 4 points
Well that really looks good Lotsa affinities etc etc

So I did a test mating with IV and Falling Stars, and the pedigree drops by 1 point compared to IV & RS ( above example)
that sux, I have managed to get back the retard in both acceleration and advancing of generation but still failed in the final scoring

I dropped this so-called sexy future sire like a hot brick, and my reasons are
The trainer is very talented and knows to hide this horse's miseries, also he will be expensive,
IV isn't a classic runner
While RS was a classic runner and with a very small trainer

So far the Alphas in the generation of the I
1- In the Money, 81% GRI steaks winners
2-I.Vero valid 62,5% GRI stakes winners
3- Izoard Vedaquais 77.5 % stakes winners - but he's no ALPHA, he beats only small category horses - and if he wins the famous GI in the 5 weeks coming, he didn't beat the creams of the other top trainers' ecuries yet

as CommenderTilly defended her flag one-day writing saying that Sweden has come a long way since Pershing, which I have to agree
And they make way better horses than the TF which seems to be rather non-constructive
While the whole world says in the T/Bred and the S/Bred horses because these horses are highly selected and it a fixed races, the rate of percentage of having a top horse is way much higher
Then in the TF, where it seems to be more of a debate of luck and chance, and these breeders have rather full of a priori

this is not a post to offend anyone
Dernière édition: 20 Nov 2021 12:08 par UaUka1.
20 Nov 2021 12:02 #43

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Réponse de vieborg sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Notre matériel génétique est très différent de celui des SB et bien moins consanguin... Difficile de fixer les choses chez nous et l'aléatoire pèse pour beaucoup hormis je dirais en ce qui concerne les affinités de courants de sangs !
20 Nov 2021 14:40 #44

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Réponse de UaUka1 sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Secretariat was an outmatch up to the 6th generation and didn't produce

the issue is that in France, most breeders outmatch, and when I ask them why? ( in real life)
They can't even answer.:nonnon:
And when they do inbreed, it seems to be very critical and it seems to me, they do not understand the right way of inbreeding or any proper laws of pedigrees ( oh whatever)

And in this subject I. Piper seems to have some good stuff and really dumb stuff,:oui: and I can imagine the owner of that horse must be dreaming to touch the jackpot with his horse
Netchka d'Orgeres is well bred :miam: :oui:
But I didn't get the big deal of putting Jet on Fakir, it should have been another way around, should have been coming from a superior being or racer or winner or GI winner
-What I can conclude is the breeder must have gotten a really good price on Hand du Vivier or had a share or didn't pay :oui:

The story worsened with Coup de Poker coming into the pedigree :oui:
-I asked myself why they inbreed VW, is because some of my friends would freak me out and would tell me Sharmila " C'est la souche de Jag":silly: :smile:
and I have to repondre " And soooooooo what????" - Coup de Poker isn't Jag and he's no GI winner :nonnon: :nonnonnon:

-I also didn't get the big tra-la-la with inbreeding A.A?
-Glup non :nonnonnon: - really? Was And Arifant a GI winner and a big chef de race? and shit the inbreeding or line breeding came from GII steak winners!
Dang shoot me that crap took up 19,25% of the pedigree
What I valid is the repeating of the doubles of Fakir from a Crack Coktail Jet and F.Account and fixing Jet du Vivier ...... to me giving more strength or power, or some meaning to senseless pedigree:miam: :oui:
I would only valid him if he does win a GI :oui:

Now talking about a fixed race - here comes in Mr. Prince Gede, a pure Frenchie, who have GI fathers most of them are really late bloomers :oui:
La Vanina B is a crack mother with la Champenoise :love: ...... elite par excellence :love:
A pedigree full of males and rarely top females
But Prince Gede was totally fabricated :roi: :oui:

Some nearly 20yrs back on an international forum, one hot debate like some sorta NATO war :D
The American blood versus the French blood
and guess who was battling it out?
A French man defending Love You " saying that Love You will destroy Muscles Yankee" " and will become the world-leading SIRE"

Good this story
Is the somewhere out-matched Loved You
against the inbred M.Yankee, a fixed race
-I will say this, at that time we could have looked at the "Hall of Fame" of the Mares, to the GI winning Mares, also the Hall of Fame Sires and winners

- that also could have proven that this silly heavy debate which shouldn't have happened - full of hate coming from both sides
- that the Yankees do have a base of construction and all the winners are "World Leaders" and coming out of the "Hall of Fame" at a very young age ( 2yrs and 3 ys ) , and most of these winners did become the "Horse of the Year "

Today who won the battle? say?

this post is not to offend anyone of any flag
Dernière édition: 21 Nov 2021 01:05 par UaUka1.
21 Nov 2021 01:04 #45

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Réponse de vieborg sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Pour moi il y a trop de différence entre les SB et les TF, ce ne sont pas des chevaux de même race...

Secretariat a produit au haras deux étalons notable de mémoire...

Quant à And Arifant, probablement extrêmement bien soutenu par la Dubois familly, je trouve que c'est un étalon marquant de notre stud !

Enfin oui, Love You est un chef de race mondial !
21 Nov 2021 01:39 #46

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Réponse de UaUka1 sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

About AA
That is an old debate, we have concluded at that time , men like JPD and PDA, the highly talented Sire makers, knew to make stallions, and masque their defaults, and since we breeders are dreamers and copy cats, we invent our lives, like an imitation of LVMH bag selling on the beaches of Cannes
-maybe we are looking for an adrenaline rush or fooling ourselves and saying the grass is better over there
-but rare are some who could have broken these guys skills asses

Today's history says that Ready Cash has broken the Dubois dynasty
That the Dubois was turning around with their lines to shove down our throats, I must agree with that especially Papie and JphD , now LB
Some say Sharmila " that the Dubois are a sleeping dragon wait they will wake up again" EEEEEKKKKK sounds a bit scary :surprise:
At one time it was said that the DUBOIS had all the top pouliches, and it was actually guaranteed if you would buy a share of his ETALON, he will put his top-mares on Sire and gosh you will be BANKABLE - WOW how silly those inventions are ..... shareholders sounding like courtiers .... right?

-Now today where are these top mares gone? - how come they are not producing anymore?
Goetz used to say on TV that the Dubois have 20yrs advanced of us breeders

If you have any news if Love You being a chef de race worldwide, I would love to see what you can learn me ( that I haven't any knowledge ) - it one generation gone now

What we constat in a short period of time M.Ready Cash, in 10 yrs have advanced the studbook two strides in betterment, also overseas
With the Dubois lines and the old and modern TF

Up to yesterday a friend of mine's was complaining that the TF will become just like Le Galop and with one line Ready Cash - EEEEK sounds a bit upside down

20yrs have gone MY rules the world
It's a pity he couldn't enter here, even once some 10yrs back we debated it would be lovely if is son M.Hill if was accepted in le TF studbook
When you see is Le President ( as Alberto calls him) krkrkkrkrkr , who buys M.H
21 Nov 2021 03:05 #47

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Réponse de vieborg sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

Les gens ont toujours dit cela dès qu'un sire dominant est sorti...

Hernani III, Kerjacques, Fandango, Coktail, Ready, And Arifant, Star's Pride, Speedy Crown.

Mais cela s'est toujours "bien" passé notamment car certaines des lignées de ses sires se marier bien entre elles. De plus, nous avions d'autres étalons à côté faisant que nous conservions une certaine variété génétique !
21 Nov 2021 09:52 #48

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Réponse de UaUka1 sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

isn't that said since more than 20yrs now........ the diversity of the TF?

And up to now, we don't see any major evolution and progression of these so-called reserves of diversity, I hope when you have time you name who is who? thanks
21 Nov 2021 14:39 #49

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Réponse de vieborg sur le sujet Nouveaux étalons. Inspirants ?

C'est trop compliqué par écrit et avec la barrière de la langue... Désolé !
21 Nov 2021 14:42 #50

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